20160203 in Nativity Church
Researcher: What’s the concept of the human dignity of the unborn child? How do you think about the human dignity of the unborn child? Do they have the right to live?
AF4: At the beginning of conception, though it has not fully formed, but life is
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decided, whether the child is fully formed, it’s a life of his own.
Researcher: Any other else?
AF5: Agree.
Researcher: Agnes agrees.
AF4: Any objection?
AF6: We all agree.
Researcher: All agree, no objection, right? Correct? OK. My second question is what is your faith? What is your religion that teaches you about the concept of human dignity of the unborn child? What is the teaching of your faith?
AF6: The teachings of catholic are life begins at the conception. God says that
“Before, I form you, I knew you…before I born you.” Life is sacred…before it implanted in the womb.
AF4: The prophet of Jeremiah.
Researcher: Any objection? (All laugh.) All: Agree. (All laugh.)
Researcher: How about, do you have any friend who laughs at you? I mean, some non-Catholic or non-faith-based friends. Have you ever been laugh at because of your life idea? I mean they think the baby is not fully formed? While they have the
problems, they just abort the baby. How the abortion happens?
AF5: We have friends when doctor said it has problem, doctor said that it is not fully formed. They aborted it.
AF4: I also have some good friends. They ask it is a suffering when the child is not good, why do you keep it? Why are you suffering? It is a very difficult question to answer. But for me, if God ask me to suffering, it will give fruits. I accept it. I don’t know, but I trust God. The outcome maybe the families strongly get together. I know it is difficult but anyone support. I am willing to accept suffering.
AF6: A good analogy like this. If we ask if you meet an accident, you lost your two legs. We ask that will you want to end of your life!? Baby cannot speak. People will learn out to walk. I can learn.
Researcher: So they strive to live.
AF6: Even when people have cancer, doctor says that there is a surgery then you have ten year to live, then you accept operate. Many will have no hesitation and say I will go for it. So if there is anything wrong, if the child (the unborn) has a voice to say
‘Let me live. Let me live.” Try. If anything, I can have a surgery. They tend to agree.
So we have no right to abort the child (the unborn). But some will choose to end of his life. Some people have to follow the doctor, when it has problem. But at least, you can decide.
Researcher: We have the freedom. God give us the free will to make our moral
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decision.
AF6: That is why I choose to learn and to live.
AF4: We insist to choose life. I have a friend, the mother has the breast cancer, she was pregnant and doctor said that you have to abort the child, but she didn’t, she wants to go through the pregnancy. She gave a child and her cancer disappeared.
Researcher: You mean that she recovered? How beautiful it is!
AF4: how to put God in the first place. God will take over.
Researcher: Actually, recent researches prove that the breast cancer has the deep connection with abortion. The more the abortion surgery was made, the more dangerous percentage to have breast cancer. The brain does not know why the pregnancy stops. The pregnancy is just suddenly terminated. The breast developed fully even at the early stage of pregnancy. The brain cannot adjust it. It causes the higher percentage of having breast cancer. The research has proved it.
AF7: I am wondering what the meaning of ‘normal’ is. For example, we are talking about children. At Legion of Mary, we monthly go to the center where the children having intellectually problems. We may need to feed them, but when we look at them, I think they bring more joy than I bring to them. As we talk this topic, these children might be regarded as monsters. I would like to share with you my experience when I look at them I feel the world is more peaceful because of them. They will not do many troubles.
Researcher: They are even the peace maker. They do not even fight or compete.
AF7: Yah. So my question is what is normal?
Researcher: You are asking the definition of normal.
AF7: Yes. And I have two friends. Both of them are pregnant and unmarried. The other is having the fifth abortion. She is still young. She came crying to me and tell me she became pregnant again. I asked her that you are crying for your pregnancy or crying about for the decision? She said both. She is just crying to go through with it. I just ask her vary simple question, how many more lives? She just dawns on me on that day. If you don’t want to have this baby, give it to me. It is something like a challenge to her. And now the baby is teen girl and they often shop around our place we live. She is so happy now.
Researcher: You change her life.
AF7: Her decision.
Researcher: How beautiful it is. My next question is according to the law, even in your country and in many other countries citizens are allowed to have abortion. No matter you are catholic or not. So we have the right to abort the baby. Is it hard to be a
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catholic or not? We could easily follow the rule, I mean the government’s law, to have right to abort the unborn child. How do you think? Is the catholic demanding too much, or not?
AF7: I have two boys. I feel the world has changed. They might be affected. But I constantly tell them that we should follow the rule of God much than to follow the the rule of government. At age of 18, you can drink, or you can drive and make decision by your own. Whatever you know you can do (after 18 age). But do we want to be ruled by the law of the world or by law of God?
Researcher: To cultivate their consciousness of making moral decision.
AF7: Yes. And this question you ask if the catholic demanding too much. I think it depends on where we are rooted.
Researcher: Yes, to be a real catholic or to think more about what is the role of faith in our life.
AF4: To follow the law of the world or the law of god? I think it has been struggled in my life. It will challenge our children.
AF6: I think it is like the one child policy in China. The government cannot foresee rightly for the future. Now they change their policy. I think Singapore had the similar problem like China. You can choose to go to the school, I mean the government school, while we have three, four or five or more children because of the economic situation. Parents want to have more children, they tend to have them. Actually, there is no baby boom. How comes there is no baby boom? Parents tend to be selfish. (The policy for the parents is) the more of them, the less of me. They would rather to choose more of me than more of them. So that is the reverse effect.
Researcher: In your country, when women seek abortion, you have the institutional settings. It’s quite different from others, like Taiwan, you have the pre-abortion counseling. In many countries, especially in Taiwan, liberal tendency is strong. Is it a good chance to re-consider the human dignity of the unborn child? Is it having some effects to save the baby or not?
AF7: It is down in my mind that it really changes the mind of parents or mind of doctors. Because I have a friend, he has the lecture in the university, and after the lecture he wanted to know more about if it is easy or difficult to have abortion. He went to KK. KK is the catholic hospitals. Then he found how easy to have abortion.
Child under the age of maybe 16, there is no need to inform their parents if they want to have abortion. Those who really want to keep the babies the hospital will check the grades, if they belong to the smarter grades, if you are university students. They tend to not really abort their child. But for the uneducated people, that will be very easy.
They put them into a counsel room, and know they are uneducated or poorly educated, then it is OK to abort the babies. So my friend, he is very shocked by knowing that.
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AF4: They have the logic of the more intelligent mothers will deliver more intelligent babies.
Researcher: The elite idea.
AF4: Yeh.
A6: The higher intellectual, the gene, they are plus to be more mature or more prepared to have sex. Then the baby will be better. The government is afraid of the problem from birth.
AF7: they think the more educated persons may more contribute the society.
AF8: Actually, some higher educated persons may come from the parents who are washing class. Some higher educated parents spoil their child.
Researcher: Compared with the countries, is the pre-abortion counseling the process for women to re-consider their decision? How do you think?
AF6: It seems compulsory. They will the show you the video what is life, then they will ask you to decide. You can come back later. Maybe many teen age girls they didn’t want to have an abortion. I think it helps. They will also show you how abortion will be done. They will show you the video.
AF4: The Silent Scream.
AF6: Yeh, The Silent Scream. I only know it is compulsory. (A disturbance was raised about what is abortion is about thirty years ago.)
AF6: Now there are some people need to adopt the babies.
Researcher: Also in your country, you have the mandatory waiting period. It’s about 2 full days after the counseling. It is 48 hours. Even having the counseling, you should calm down and think about it 2 full days.
AF6: If you really want it (to have abortion), then you come back.
Researcher: In my country, the liberal radical feminists regard these institutional settings are kind of discrimination. They say when women seek abortion, they had thought about it over thousands of times. So they think there is no need to have pre-abortion counseling as well as the waiting period. It is quite different. So how do you think? It is the two opposite sides to weighting.
AF7: If the women have thought of it thousands of times, then the pre-abortion counseling makes no any sense, just go for it. I mean if she decides to go abortion, then the pre-abortion may make difference for her. (All laugh.)
AF6: True, True, True. That is the case my question is to know why after the pre-abortion counseling, why would they change their mind? For human or for
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