Fifth Taiwan Vegan Frenzy: March 11-12, 2017 (Taichung).
Facebook event page: https://www.facebook.com/events/624979947699666/
B Interviews
B.1 Environment and Animal Society of Taiwan (EAST).
Date: 2016/12/22
Location: EAST Office, No. 18, Lane 84, Hexing Rd, Wenshan District, Taipei Time: 4.30 PM
Interviewee: Chu Tseng-hung, Director.
1) Your organization is very active in advancing the concept of animal rights and welfare in Taiwan, at the same time, public attention and engagement with animal activism appears to be increasing (ex. University clubs, Vegan fairs, etc). Would you consider these
developments and your organization to be part of a wider social movement dedicated to advance the interests of animals in Taiwan?
I think so, but maybe some other social movement groups do not consider animal concern as part of a social moment. Myself I do think we are part of that, and addition to the animal welfare concern, we are also involved with the environment protection movement and other social justice movements too.
2) Actually on that point. How would you describe the relationship between Taiwan’s Animal Protection Movement and the Environmental Movement?
Myself and other groups, some maybe 20 years ago were also involved with other environment issues. For example, the wetland protection, the nature forest reserve, and for example the Hushan Dam project, we protested against it and some other issues. So we do involve with other environment groups, so there are links between the 2 groups, and individual links.
3) So would you place this in the eco-politics landscape of Taiwan?
Yes. We are also much involved with Wildlife conservation, that’s the link between animals and the environment too.
4) There is a growing population of people adhering to a ‘vegan’ lifestyle based on
consumption. How are the Animal Protection Movement and the Environmental Movement connected to this?
Well, we do not promote vegetarianism or veganism ourselves. But some of our campaign materials, for example videos, footage of the inhumane slaughter of animals would become very
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strong tools for the vegetarian people to promote vegetarian ideas. Even Buddhist groups like Chinghai… she promotes vegetarianism and she uses the material we have made. And now because of climate change, people would like to encourage to environmentally concerned people to eat less meat. Not even to become vegetarian but to at least eat less meat. So that’s the link between all these movements.
5) One of the reasons how animal ethics, and part of what vegan people promote come from Peter Singer’s and Tom Regan’s ideas… and as you used to be involved with the LCA…
Yes, I was the Secretary General for the first 6 years.
6) So those texts were translated by that organization, do you feel that in Taiwan there is a special or particular approach to animal rights that infuses Buddhism with western animal rights ideas?
The ideas of animal welfare or even animal rights I think it definitely comes from the west. We did have animal protection groups before, but when they talk about animal protection, I think their idea is to be kind to animals or to love animals... but kindness or love for animals doesn’t really mean the welfare or animal rights.
7) So now that’s also why we have the big issue of shelter no-kill policy, because people think that they don’t want to kill animals but don’t consider the welfare.
Yes, that’s right.
8) On this issue, why are people more receptive toward the issue of stray cats or dogs but don’t consider other animals?
Yeah, of course around the world people love pets, dogs and cats’ lovers are much much more than other animal welfare advocates. But the difference between western dogs and cat lovers (in Taiwan), is more so, I think… people concerned about cats and dogs in the west are more accepting of the concept of the welfare of farm animals or laboratory animals. But here, people maybe just love dogs or cats but they are not concerned about the welfare or the fate of other species… so kindness doesn’t mean the welfare or the rights of animals.
9) Because Taiwan has a big Stray animal protection movement when it comes to cats and dogs… Is the Stray Animal Protection Movement the same as the Animal Protection Movement?
No, I do think that there is a big gap.
10) But would they fall under the umbrella of Animal Protection Movement?
I don’t think they really consider themselves as animal protection, only as dog or cat protection.
11) What is EAST’s main issue focus at the moment?
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For our group? Actually we don’t really say that we are focusing on which kind of animals. Of course we have our major work, key issues. For example, farm animals, laboratory animals.
However, if when we... come across issues, such as the stray dog issues, we will also spare our time and resources to deal with those issues. So we don’t really say we focusing only on farm animals or laboratory animals, we are just focusing on what we should do from time to time.
Depends on the opportunity and chances. For example, the stray dog issue is coming because they want to promote the so called TNR to be institutionalized, that the government should spend a budget to support TNR, that is something we are against. So we do in Congress say that this not the way to go.
12) So you don’t support TNR? Why?
No. Of course we are not against TNR, but we do not support the idea that TNR should be carried out by the government.
13) So what is your suggested approach?
We suggest that for TNR, people can do it, that dogs or cats can be neutered or spayed, that is good to help. The government should spend its resources, its attention to the very origin, the root of the problems. The pet owners, the pet industry. To promote responsible pet ownership.
However, if stray dogs become the burden of the government, then there is no real responsible ownership. So that’s why we don’t support that.
14) On these terms, do you agree with the other organizations?
No we don’t agree.
15) So this is a point of contention between animal groups?
Yes, we have big debates. We are one of the very few groups, on this issue, that stands on the government’s side because we don’t think that is the way to go.
16) Is there a lot of opposition from the pet industry on this case?
The pet industry… they don’t really have a big voice on this. For example, we passed the law to have pet owners neuter their pets, only the dogs neutered. The pet industry doesn’t like that.
However, they don’t have much lobby power, and that law now is passed. So every dog owner should have their dogs neutered, unless they apply for a registration from the government.
17) How about compliance?
Not very strong. However, the government in Taipei, the Taipei Municipal government, is trying to link the pet registration scheme with the household registration. If that link can be successfully managed, it would become viable for the government to understand how many households now own how many dogs, where are the pet owners, if they move, go to other city or go abroad. If
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there is a databank, then we can see how many pet owners have their dogs and cats neutered or spayed. I think there is a trial in Taipei city now. Even now, a percentage of pet owners, not small, but I think 20-30 percent of pet owners do not have their dogs neutered or spayed. But that is very high already, you know, 20-30 percent can make big trouble.
18) When it comes to cooperation with the government, do you feel that the government is receptive to cooperate with you and other groups, and at what level do you usually have exchange?
Our relationship with the government… I think it’s very healthy. It doesn’t mean that they can only accept, or they would refuse. But the dialog between our group and the government is very healthy. As long as we are appealing with good reasons, with good evidence, often we can be effective. We are members of consulting committees in the Council of Agriculture, other groups too as it couldn’t be only one group there… However, our voice can often be very persuasive and effective.
19) So based on your experience, which methods have you found to be more effective for your advocacy?
Research. We spend most of our time and resources researching or investigating animal issues, looking into the problems. So every time we launch a campaign, whether it is on farm animals, lab animals or companion animals, we will bring attention to the media, after that we go to the politicians, we try to lobby the government, in Congress or local governments. Often, it will be acceptable to them.
20) And is the public also receptive towards these messages?
It depends. For example, if we launched a campaign related to wildlife, in the zoo or aquarium…
that message can get across quite fast and quite broad. But in terms of farm animals, or laboratory animal issues… that could be difficult. But dogs and cats can be very very fast.
21) Do you feel that the concept of animal rights, and animal activism is political?
Probably, I think. You can call it ethical and political. In this modern society, every individual decision, individual actions can be political... and ethical too.
22) So to finish, how can the government address or trying to promote more consciousness toward animal rights or animal welfare?
I think at the very beginning they may mix the idea of animal rights and animal welfare. But right now, I think they do understand that they are different. They try to distinguish these two ethics ideas right now. So… Even the scholars, for example this morning we had a meeting with the government, and the academics, the jurists said: Ok we should have an “Animal Welfare Act”. I think that the [concept of] animal welfare is becoming more familiar with academics and government officials. I don’t think they will say it’s animal rights.
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23) So is that a suggested amendment to the current Animal Protection Act or a different bill?
We would like to promote an Animal Welfare Act. I think that animal welfare should be a base line. Once you have the base line for all kinds of animals, then you can tell society that animal welfare is not enough. Then we should press for animal rights more, get more protection for them. But right now if you say protection, the idea just applies to dogs and cats.
24) The Animal Protection Act right now is mostly concerned with economic use right?
The Animal Protection we have, maybe 95% is for pets. Maybe 3% for farm animals, maybe 2%
for laboratory animals.
25) Do you think that there is hope in advancing these concepts?
I think so, yes, because even with the latest amendment on the APA. It says that the government should have a “whitepaper” for animal protection. “Animal Welfare whitepaper”, this word is now in our law. And “animal welfare indicators”. So these two words are now used by the government, in the law. So the government now is trying to have its people to try to write these whitepapers and indicators.
26) What about the aspect of resources to conduct these projects?
I don’t know in the future, but for the current official in charge of these whitepapers and indicators, he does think that whitepaper should not be just put into a shelf once its finished. It should be a practical guide.
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